5.45mm AR-15 Magazine Guide

Comparison of 5.56mm and 5.45mm magazines

5.45x39mm caliber stamping, SS is for stainless steel

The only dedicated 5.45mm AR-15 magazines that I know of are the C-Products/ASC/Stoner 5.45mm mags.  Except for cosmetic batch-to-batch changes, they all seem to be more or less the same.  Finishes vary from a sort of matte grey, like the Fusil AR mags that I have, to a glossy black.  The followers, springs, and stainless magazine bodies all seem to be essentially identical in form.

The finish on the magazines, by the way, kind of sucks.  After a few uses, you’ll notice that the finish is wearing off, maybe flaking off, around the edges, especially where the mag fits into the rifle.

Although, I’ve heard that some shooters are having better luck with the new ASC (Ammuntion Storage Components) magazines, the three that I bought from AIM Surplus all gave me the same problems that I had with the C-Products magazines.  C-Products closed down shop, but rumor has it that ASC is the same people, making the same parts, off the same tooling and machinery.  The product line is essentially identical.

The Stoner magazines from Midway are rebranded C-Products/ASC magazines.  There may be some 5.45mm AR-15 magazines with Smith & Wesson stamped on the floorplates, for the M&P15R rifles and uppers – same deal as with the Stoner mags, rebranded C-Products/ASC.

Followers
The C-Products 5.45mm followers are similar to a no-tilt follower, but with no anti-tilt leg at the front.

5.45mm followers are missing the front leg

There may be some magazines out on the used market with skeletonized white plastic followers.  There was a guy selling these followers on a few gun-related message board classifieds as improved. 5.45mm AR-15 followers.  Last I heard, Spike’s Tactical had the tooling to produce these “improved” followers.  At least one batch of Spike’s 5.45mm uppers came with a magazine with the white follower already installed.  They had stopped this by the time I bought my Spike’s upper.

I’ve read that the “improved” followers only work with the earlier C-Products magazines.  I can’t confirm this because I can’t get hold of one of the followers, and besides that, all my magazines seem to be structurally identical.

"Improved follower" video I found on YouTube

Magpul followers can be modified to fit the 5.45mm magazine bodies.  When you try to put one in, you’ll see that ribs on side of the Magpul follower interfere with the floorplate tabs on the bottom of the magazine body.  If you cut away the ribs on the follower that get in the way, they seem to work fine.  One of the magazines that’s been working really well for me has a Gen.III yellow Magpul follower.  Unfortunately, the Magpul follower is not a cure-all, and will probably not fix a finicky magazine all on it’s own.  The anti-tilt legs of the Magpul follower may cost you a few rounds of magazine capacity over the standard black 5.45mm follower.

Magpul No-Tilt-Follower modified to fit 5.45mm mag body

The ASC magazines that I fixed the feedlips of are working well with the black 5.45mm followers that came with them. I had originally tried the Magpul follower because I didn't know why the magazines were giving me trouble.  I tried it again when I found one magazine that just refused to work, and I was getting desperate.  Not a necessity, but if you want a high-visibility follower, or if it's something you think might help, then maybe it's worth a try.

Compatibility
Springs for standard AR-15 magazines will not fit the 5.45mm bodies.  The 5.56mm AR-15 magazine springs are too wide to fit the 5.45mm bodies.  AK-74 magazine springs will fit, but nobody sells just the springs.  You’d have to scrap an AK-74 magazine to get the spring, and they aren’t that cheap at $13+ each for surplus magazine.  AK-47 magazine springs will not fit either.  (EDIT, no longer true, scroll down for note on Wolff magazine springs)

Magpul PMag spring top, C-Products 5.45mm spring bottom

The C-Products 5.45mm magazines are, unfortunately, a little bit on the short side, and don't have enough power to trip my extended bolt catch consistently.  You may even have trouble getting them to feed reliably without spraying some dry lube into the magazine tube, because the spring has a hard time pushing up the ammo fast enough before the bolt carrier returns forward.

Width and length of the 5.45mm AR-15 magazines are standard G.I. size, so they’ll fit most any mag pouch that will work for a 5.56mm AR/M-16 mag.

The LULA AR-15 magazine loaders don't work with the 5.45mm magazines.  The Pro-Mag loader that crams 5 rounds at a time into the magazine at once, and works well with 5.45mm magazine, as well as with 5.56mm mags.  I got my Pro-Mag loader from Bravo Company USA (they call it "AR15 Personal Magazine Loader 5.56mm"), but they are available from other places too.

Magpul Ranger plates will fit the 5.45mm magazines, but again will require modifications.  Just for kicks, I spent maybe 10 minutes cutting the lockplate with a hacksaw and round file.  I don't have any of the Magpul L-Plates, but I would imagine they would work with the same modification.

C-Products 5.45mm magazine with Magpul Ranger plate

Ranger lockplate modified for 5.45mm magazine

Oh, I guess I wasn't the first to try.

PMags with 5.45mm ammo
With the front leg of a new Magpul PMag Maglevel follower cut off, 5.45mm rounds will feed well, and the magazine holds 29 rounds of 5.45mm.  The mag, modified like this will not trip my extended bolt catch when it runs empty though.  The LULA 5.56mm AR-15 loader sort of works with the modified Maglevel, but not as well as with 5.56mm ammo.

The older Maglevel magazines without the dust cover that clips onto the bottom, or round count markings, will jam up when you try to load them with 5.45mm ammo, even with a modified follower.

PMag Maglevel follower chopped for use with 5.45mm

Modified follower will stick out through the feedlips

Related Link:  Desecration of a PMAG: 5.45x39mm - Cutting the follower, and magazine compatibility.

Other Magazines with 5.45mm ammo
I'll spare you going through all the different kinds of magazines I have individually.  D&H aluminum with Magpul follower, standard 30-round PMags with no window, PMag 20s, and 30-round Troy Battle mags will generally work okay if you don’t load more than 12 or 15 rounds.  If you try to cram in more than 15 rounds, the ammo or the followers will jam in the tube, and the magazine won’t feed properly.

I tried a 30-round Lancer L5 magazine, but it jammed up when loaded with 12-15 rounds.  The magazine body bowed out, making it difficult to insert into the rifle, and it definitely didn’t drop free when the mag catch button was pressed.  I believe that there are multiple generations of the L5 magazines.  There are reports of some working better than others.

EDIT: 9/28/2014 - Extra Power Magazine Springs
Wolff Gun Springs has started selling AK-74 magazine springs.  They are longer than you need, but I think they have fixed my problem child magazines.  At $5.60 each (when you buy 10) they are a little expensive though.

I cut off 5 coils, and bent the end of the spring to hook onto the 5.45mm AR follower.  Not really a big deal.  You could probably cut off more, but I figure that it's easier to cut off more later, than to try and add coils back on.  I intend to buy more and replace the springs in all of my 5.45mm AR magazines.

Thanks Wolff!!

Related Links:

Tuning 5.45mm AR-15 Mags
M4Carbine.net Forum: I am taking the 5.45x39mm plunge - currently at 57 pages
AIM Surplus: Spike's Tactical 5.45x39mm 16" Mid-Length Upper
AIM Surplus: Spike's Tactical 5.45x39mm 8.25" Upper

This article is an attempt to compile all the knowledge of the 57 pages of the M4Carbine.net thread, other sources, and my own personal experiences.  Thanks to Neckbreaker for finding the PMag modification thread on XDTalk.  Thanks to thisguy41487 for having the balls to hack up PMags.  Thanks to whoever figured out the Magpul follower mod - I can't find the thread, or your username, sorry.

Finally Replaced Aimpont Battery

I bought a used Aimpoint M2 a few years ago for my LMT M4.  In September 2009, I replaced the battery that came in it with a new one.  I've left the Aimpoint on, turned to the 2nd highest setting, since then.  I just noticed last night that the dot wasn't as bright as it used to be.  The dot was still there. . . I just couldn't get full brightness out of it.

Aimpoint has upgraded the electronics in it's sights since they made my M2.  The new circuitry is supposed to make a battery last about 5 years.  I'm not going to rush to replace the "old" M2, as the battery only cost me a couple dollars a year, and the battery I put in I picked up from Amazon for just $4 shipped, a couple dollars cheaper.

Okay, No More AK Recoil Buffers For Me

A few years ago I bought a couple of BlackJack buffers.

I put one in my WASR-10, and the red dot sight shook loose.  Yes, I did use thread-locker.  No problem with function though.

When the spacer broke off the recoil spring guide for the TWS scope mount, I put the buffer from the WASR-10 into the Tantal.  All the stock screws and the buffer tube castle nut shook loose.  Again, I had used thread locker on the screws and the nut.  The buffer didn't affect function though.

Thinking that, with the variety of 12 gauge ammo, a buffer would probably be a good thing in the Saiga-12 to protect the stock trunnion from impact, and keep the rivet holes in the receiver from egging out.  I had intermittent stovepipe jams.  I tried turning the gas plug to open up the gas flow, and I still had the stovepipes, and the shotgun beat up my shoulder pretty good.

Without the stupid buffers, the Saiga-12 has been running 100% with the high-brass gas setting (not beating me up as much) and the carbines are holding together, and not shaking loose anymore.  The buffers are going into my bag o' AK junk with the crappy Tapco folding stock, the stock Saiga-12 trigger, the heavy gritty Century Arms trigger and unfinished wood stock set, and the foreign-made parts that I'm not allowed to use.  I don't need the buffer for the TWS scope mount anymore since they sent me the proper recoil spring guide, the Saiga 12 doesn't work properly with one, and there didn't seem to be any benefit to having the buffer in the WASR-10.

Running Steel-Cased Ammo in an AR

There's a pretty good article on steel-case .233 Remington ammo on the Cheaper Than Dirt Blog.  I would just add that you probably want have a carbine buffer in the gun, as an "H" buffer or "H2" buffer may cause the action to run too sluggish with lower-powered ammo.

Sturmgewehre shoots a lot of Wolf ammo

Tula .223Rem Fail - TulAmmo steel-case ammo short-stroked one of my AR-15s

DIY Shoot-N-See Type Targets

I've sort of been following the Gunmart Blog.  "Gunmart" found a video on YouTube on how to make Shoot-N-See targets with paper and spray paint.  Pretty cool.  I'll have to find some oil and water-based paint so I can make some targets for the 100 yard rifle range.  I have a hard time spotting hits on targets that I can see, and the targets that I can see hits on, I have a hard time seeing 100 yards away without magnification.

I believe Shoot-N-C targets are trademarked by Birchwood-Casey.  No lawsuits please.  I just think that it's the name most people will recognize.

Review: Troy Battlemag AR-15 Magazine

EDIT:  If you are a 2nd Amendment supporter, you should probably read about Troy's hiring a Ruby Ridge shooter, before continuing.


I haven’t used my Troy magazines too much yet to talk about reliability, but I can show you some pictures, and tell you a little bit about them.

Battlemags with and without pull-tab

The Troy Battlemags come with two different lock-plates.  They come assembled with a pull-tab lockplate, which you can use to pull the magazine out of a mag pouch.  You also get a flat lock-plate if you don’t want or need the pull-tab.  It’s a nice touch, to be sure.  It beats paying three-something dollars for a standard Magpul or a couple dollars more for a Ranger plate.  I guess it might be a problem when you go to Tap-Pull-Roll-Rack with a partially loaded magazine.

The Troy magazine base-plate is held on with tabs, much like a Lancer L5 magazine.  The Lancer disassembly tool actually works really well on the Troy magazine.  The Lancer tool is piece of plastic that usually sells for around $3, but you might find them cheaper on closeout since the new Lancer magazines don’t require a tool to disassemble.  You don’t really need the tool, you could use the tip of a bullet to push in the tabs, but it can be difficult to get one, and then get the other, without the first tab popping back into place.  The Lancer tool pushes in both tabs at the same time.

The Troy base-plate is slim; it’s actually the same width as the rest of the magazine.  If you want a polymer mag, but the wide bases on PMags are pissing you off, or they just don’t work with your vest or pouches, then the Troy’s may be for you.

The Troy follower is an anti-tilt unit, in high-visibility green.  The spring it bent, such that the follower is pushed straight up, rather than rear-first, as is the usual with most AR/M-16 magazines, including the PMags.

The magazine body has a fish-scale checkering pattern on the sides and down the front and back.  All the texturing is oriented to give maximum traction when pulling on the magazine.  When seating a Troy magazine, you had better get your palm at least part-way under the base-plate.  If I were texturing a magazine body, I would probably use multi-directional pineapple grenade checking, like Glock used on their 2nd and 3rd generation frames, or maybe stippling - like between 36 and 60 grit.

If you need some kind of a pull tab to get mags out of your vest or pouches, these may be a good deal.  If you like 6-pack SAW magazine pouches or something, and the fat base-plates of PMags won’t fit, the Troy mags may work out for you.  I do like the high-visibility followers, and the bend on the top coil of the spring is something that should get done all the time, but usually doesn’t get done.  I guess they aren’t my favorite magazines, but there’s really not anything wrong with them, and under certain conditions I can see them being very desireable.

EDIT, 10/21/12:  I've run 3 full loads through one of the Troy mags, without any issues.  I've loaded it with M193, and put it in with my SHTF stash.  The other one will make it into the rotation for further testing.

Revew: Magpul Art of the Tactical Carbine I

I looks like it's been more than a month since the last time I posted.  Time got away from me, I guess.  Here's a review that I've been working on for a while.

The Trainers
The Magpul DVD series are sort of documentaries on training courses.  “Stars of the show” are Chris Costa and Travis Haley.  Costa sometimes sounds like an angry boot camp drill instructor, but he’s actually the joker of the pair.  Haley is the more easy going of the two.  Costa and Haley do things a little bit different, so you get to see things done a little bit differently in the same DVD set.

According to the bio on Costa’s facebook page, he was involved with counter-drug actions and “special missions in Europe, the Middle East, and South America” with the Coasties.  After this, he worked for Applied Marine Technologies, Inc., working with the Homeland Security Risk Management Division, specializing in teaching Police Assault Operations.  It also says that he provided Red Team Vulnerability Assessments on U.S. Government infrastructures, which makes me wonder if he’s one of the characters in my favorite Rogue Warrior book.  Costa left Magpul Dynamics to start up his own training company, Costa Ludus.

Travis Haley was a Force Recon Marine.  Haley also left Magpul to start up his own training, product consulting, and marketing company, Haley Strategic Partners, LLC.  According to the about page of Haley Strategic, Haley served in the Middle East, Africa, and Central Asia in his 15 years with the Force Recon Marines, and then worked in the private sector as a special operations and security contractor before joining up with Magpul Dynamics.

Production Quality
Production quality of the videos is really good actually.  There’s no music left over from a 1995 Cozumel travel video; something you sometimes get with lowest-bidder production companies.  Menu graphics are pretty decent, and I like the Japanese-themed DVD case covers.  It doesn’t have anything to do with the quality of the training, but it’s nice anyway.

So you put in the disk and press play, and there’s 3 or 4 minutes of lawyer B.S. about how training with firearms is potentially lethal, and all that.  You have to wait through all this crap every time you put a disk in, unless your player allows you to pick up where you left off.  You can not skip past it.  It gets really annoying.

Disk 1 – Fundamentals [and Equipment]
A lot of this will be a little boring to some of you who have been shooting for a couple years or more.  They cover sighting in.  Administrative loading, and a few different methods of press checking are covered.  Emergency and tactical reloads are explained and demonstrated.  They show how to work the AR-15s, both with the Magpul BAD extended bolt catch and the standard “ping-pong paddle” bolt catch.

Hold offs for close-range carbine shooting are shown and explained.  Perhaps useful if you’ve only used rifles at 50 and 100 yards.

Getting into some stuff that you may not have seen at your local gun club, Travis and Costa discuss the aggressive stance, grip, and recoil control that are useful for shooting a carbine rapid fire.

There are some basic malfunction drills, including S.P.O.R.T.S. and tap-rack-bang.  There's a little bit more in Disk 2, but that’s about the extent of if for this series.  There’s much more in the Magpul Carbine II DVD set.

Towards the end of Disk 1, they’re starting to get into more advanced drills, including shooting on the move, shooting from positions other than standing, and working with a partner.  Then there is a Final Exercise, which is most of the drills all put together, and shot by the students in pairs.

Disk 1 Special Features – There is some discussion of optics, back-up iron sights (BUIS), slings, mag pouches and tactical vests.

Disk 2 – Advanced Skills
For some reason Travis is not on Disk 2 or Disk 3, so it’s all Costa from now on.

Pistols are introduced into the mix, and they work on transitioning from carbine to pistol a little bit.  There is some basic training on malfunction and failure drills.

“Check drills,” a method of calling out for a reload when working with a partner, are explained and practiced.  Using this method, it increases the odds that one member of the team is always capable of returning fire.

Costa shows how you can get pretty decent hits with the red dots turned off, without flipping up back-up sights.  In the event that the battery dies or the sight is damaged, this could be quite useful.

Continuing with sighting, a method of holding the front sight above the rear aperture is explained for use at close range.

There are some advanced shooting on the move drills followed by barricade drills.  The students practice shooting from either side of the barricades, and then work the barricades in pairs.  After the folding table barricades, which simulate building (or hallway) corners or doorways, they move onto barricades with a variety of firing ports.  There is some working the carbine with the left hand, but much more is covered in Magpul Carbine II.  Finally, they move into a range set-up with vehicles, and in pairs, they shoot at targets in and around the vehicles.

Disk 3 – Drills [and Miscellany]
The third disks a quick reference of all the drills covered in disks 1 and 2.  The drills are done at full speed and slow-motion, and are shown from multiple camera angles.

Disk 3 also gets into some detailed information on weapon accessories, disassembly/cleaning/maintenance of the AR-15/M4/M-16 weapons system, and some information on traveling with firearms.

Costa explains why he prefers single point slings. . . although you can see that he uses 2 and 3-point slings in various points in disks 1 and 2.  Disk 3 is the only place, in this set, that you see any shoulder transitions.  They don’t get into shoulder transition drills until The Art of the Tactical Carbine II.

So, In Conclusion
Although not a real substitute for a real training course, you can learn some stuff from DVDs, and combined with live-fire and dry-fire practice, you can make some real progress.  Unfortunately not everyone can afford a high-end class, the travel, and the housing.

The DVDs really only concentrate on the AR-15 platform.  Although there was an AK-47 type rifle in Disk 1, and an AK-74 type rifle in Disk 2, I would have liked to see more on the use of the Kalashnikov rifles.  There’s also nothing to help you shoot better beyond about 75 yards – nothing on using a 2-point sling as an added support for shooting.

For less than $40 the set is a pretty fantastic deal.  I really like that Travis and Costa lead by example, rather than just by dictation.  I learn a few few things, and I now understand the fascination with single-point slings.


Valhalla Tactical Supply has the best prices that I've seen on the Magpul DVDs.  They also have pretty good deals on other Magpul stuff, black rifle parts, and gear.  I have Art of the Tactical Carbine, and Art of the Dynamic Handgun also, but you'll have to give me time to go through them again, take better notes, and do the write-ups.

Anti-gun Hypocrite Pulls Gun on Burglary Suspect

On December 20th, Mobile, Alabama major Sam Jones returned from the grocery store, and found a strange man in his garage.  The mayor had his .38 revolver, confronted the man, told him he was armed, and held him there until police arrived.  The twist to the story: Mayor Jones is a member of New York Mayor Bloomberg's Mayors Against Illegal Guns organization.

Mayors Against Illegal Guns opposes the rights of ordinary Americans to carry handguns, purchase "assault weapons" and "high-capacity magazines," make private gun sales without involving licensed dealers, gun shows in general, and other gun rights.

When on city business, Jones has a Mobile police officer acting as his bodyguard, but on that day in December, he was just making a run to the store.  It is unclear whether the Mobile mayor has a concealed carry permit, or if he had a handgun in his vehicle or on his person illegally.  Jones wouldn't reveal if he has a permit to carry or not to the press.  An NRA-backed law passed in 2009, blocking the public access to the list of Alabama concealed carry permit holders.

Does the Mayor of Mobile oppose the rights that he exercises himself?  It sure looks like that don't it?  Obviously, I don't have any problem with Mayor Jones carrying a firearm.  I don't blame him for keeping quiet about whether he's got a permit either, as I wouldn't go about broadcasting that to the general public either..  For him to be a part of Mayors Against Illegal Guns, and oppose the gun rights of the "little people" at the same time is hypocritical though.  Give up your guns, or drop out of Mayors Against Illegal Guns Mr. Jones.

al.com article on the Mayor Jones burglary
Hat Tip to CCRKBA for bringing up the story in their newsletter

KSL Utah Open Carry Law Poll

Link to KSL Utah open carry article with poll.  Poll is about 1/3 of the way down.

Should a law be passed to avoid criminal charges for lawful carrying?

Boy Defends Mom With BB Gun

Merry Christmas, everyone!

A Cristmas Story is going to start playing in about 10 minutes, and I'm sure Home Alone is on one channel or another soon too.  I'm just not sure which is more relevant.

Boy defends mom from intruder with BB gun.

Tuning 5.45mm AR-15 Mags

So far, every C Products and ASC 5.45mm magazine that I've tried has caused jams, straight out of the packaging.  Every one.  Things are okay if I don’t load more than about a dozen rounds, but when I load 20 or 25, I’ll get plenty of stoppages.  Whenever I remember to check, the stoppages have all come when feeding from the right side of the magazine.

This is the typical 5.45mm feed jam. Looks like bolt-over-base.

If you load 5 or 6 rounds (look at both feed lips), you’ll see that the feed lips are holding the case along the full length.  When you get to around 20 rounds in the magazine, you’ll start to see that the lips of the magazine are really only holding the case near the rim.  The left-side feed lips are usually pretty good, but the right-side feed lips have all left the front end of the cases of the rounds without much support.  There seemed to be a logical connection.

You need to be prepared to finish manufacturing the magazine tubes.  In a somewhat rare fashion, I decided that this particular job was better to handle with some finesse, rather than brute force.  Another Spike’s 5.45mm upper owner said he fixed the magazines with a hammer.  I decided to make another magazine lip tool, and I bend the feedlips. . . carefully.  At first, I was just bending the lips to hold the cases of the rounds better when loaded to capacity.  This resulted in about a 50% success rate.  Some of the newly tuned magazines ran fine.  Some still jammed as if I hadn’t done anything.  Some of the magazines would feed up until the 2nd to last round, and then jam.

The problem seems to be related to the angle that the bullets were presented.  With the magazines that worked, the tips of the bullets were only a few millimeters above the front edge of the magazine.  The ones that continued to jam, as if I hadn’t done anything, had the bullets sitting higher.  The ones that didn’t jam until the 2nd to last round, I had bent the feed lips too far, and the tip of the bullet was almost even with the front edge of the magazine.

The modified magazines hold the 5.45mm ammo at the same angle as my D&H aluminum U.S.G.I.-type 5.56mm magazines.  Yeah, I guess maybe I should have checked this earlier.

See how the tip of the bullet in the unmodified mag points skyward.  "There's your problem!"

New strategy.  Take one of the magazines that works, and fix the others to match it.  This seems to be working well.  I think maybe I got this figured out.

Low-Power Variable Scope vs. Red Dot

Living Room Carpet Photo.  Sorry.  At least you can't see my Crocs in the bottom edge. ;)

The Millet DMS-1 is a pretty good scope, however, a low-power variable scope will never be quite as fast as a red dot at less than 25 yards.  I don’t think it’s a function of the quality of the lenses.  The DMS-1 seems to be really clear to me.  It’s just the nature of telescopic devices.

When you’re looking through the eyepiece, the image that you see is the image that the objective lens “sees” more than a foot out in front of your eye.  The image is translated through the lenses, and then through the couple inches that make up the eye relief.

With a red dot, except for maybe a little bit of tinting because of lens coatings, and a little bit of color in the glass, you can actually see the same image through both eyes.  This is very intuitive.  With a low-power variable scope, even if the scope isn’t magnifying the target, you’re still not seeing the same image with both eyes.

When you’re looking through the low-power scope, and one eye is seeing. . . what it usually sees, and the other eye is seeing an image that’s actually more than a foot in front of your face it’s disorienting.  It’s really disorienting if you’re moving, or tracking a moving target.

I was actually a little bit surprised to find that it’s a little easier to hit index cards out to 25 yards with a red dot with no magnification.  I’d have thought that there’d be enough precision required that magnification would help.  Nope.  Put dot on target, squeeze trigger is all you need to do.  Even I can do that offhand.

Now, those index cards get harder to hit when you get out to 50 yards.  With a steady position, or some support, I can still hit the cards consistently at 50.  A 4 MOA dot covers 2 inches at 50 yards.  It’s getting hard just to put the dot on the card.  With the DMS, I can encircle the card with the reticle and I can zoom in a bit, and still get hits from a sitting position without too much difficulty.

At 75 yards that dot is about the same width as the card, and I pretty much need a bench rest to hit that sucker with a 4 MOA red dot.  Turning the DMS up to 4X, I can still nail the card pretty much all the time from a sitting position.  From prone or a good supported position the index cards don’t stand a chance with the DMS on 4X.

At 100 yards, I can hit paper plates almost 100% from various offhand positions at 100 yards, with the red dot, but I can’t hardly see the index card (20/40 vision), and the dot would almost completely cover the whole index card.  Maybe half the rounds will hit an index card taped in the middle of the paper plate.  I can’t do much better with a benchrest, maybe 75% hit the index card.

At 100 yards though, I’ve shot 10-round groups approaching 1” with the DMS at 4X.  The scope is definitely better for real precision.

Why am I going to so much trouble to hit those damn cards?  They’re cheap, and are a pretty good representation of the brain of someone who’s looking, and shooting, at you.  If your opposition is smart, then all you’ll be able to see of them is the top half of their head.  The head of a USPSA target is about 6” square, with a brain box about 2 x 4”.  The head of the IDPA target is just a 6” square.  An index card is a pretty good ½ size approximation of the “A Zone” of the USPSA target (6 x 10”).

There is an alternative to a low-power variable scope.  You can run a red dot sight with a magnifier.  Most of the magnifiers are 3X, but I’ve also seen 4X and 5X magnifiers.  With a detachable magnifier mount or ring that allows you to flip the magnifier over to the side, you get the close-range speed of a red dot with most of the precision of a low-power scope. 

The drawback of running a red dot and a magnifier is cost.  A half-decent low-power variable scope with a quick detach mount will run maybe $350-400.  The Aimpoint Pro package of a red dot sight and basic mount runs $400, and I’m not sure if you can fit a magnifier mount in between that Aimpoint mount and a back-up-iron-sight (BUIS).  The less expensive but still decent quality magnifiers run $150-200, and only come with screw-clamp rings.  The Larue Pivot mount is the only one I can really recommend, aside from the one that comes with the $500 EOTECH magnifier package, and the Larue mount runs $150.  To fit an Aimpoint-type red dot, magnifier, and BUIS all on a flat-top AR-15 upper, I think you kind of need a cantilever mount for the red dot.  The Larue QD cantilever that I have my Aimpoint M2 in runs $165, but you can get by with the Primary Arms cantilever mount for $25.

I would have thought that the red dot/magnifier combo would weigh more than a low-power variable scope, but that doesn’t seem to be the case.  I weighed up some stuff, expecting the scope to come out lighter.

• DMS-1 in American Defense Recon-X 30mm mount – 1 pound 9.6 oz.
• Aimpoint M2 in Larue LT129 cantilever mount – 11.3 oz.
• Vortex 3X magnifier in Larue LT649 Pivot mount – 12.2 oz.
• Aimpoint, Vortex 3x, and Larue mounts all together – 1 pound 7.5 oz.

If you are running something other than an AR-15, SCAR, or ACR, you’re going to have some trouble running a red dot and a magnifier.  I haven’t seen any low-mount flip-to-side magnifier mounts, and the AR-15 mounts will be sort of silly high on an AK variant, HK, M1A, or FAL.  You can still use the AR mounts, but you’ll have to add a cheekpiece to your stock in order to get any kind of cheekweld.

I prefer to run a red dot/magnifier combination for an all-round carbine.  I can’t quite get the same long-range accuracy this way, because the 4 MOA dots of my Aimpoints cover more of the target than the small dot or crosshairs of a scope.  If I ever needed to do any fighting around here, it would mostly be inside of 100 yards though.  If I really needed to shed some weight, I could remove the magnifier from the rifle, and just put it back on as needed.

Millet DMS-1 Scope Review

I’ve been surprised by the accuracy I’ve gotten out of the DMS-1.  With handloads, I’ve gotten a bunch of 1 1/8” ten-shot groups from a free-floated LMT M4 16”, even with the 6 pound stock trigger.  It may actually do better, but the barrel might not be able to do any better than that.  I wouldn’t have thought that you could do even that at 100 yards with just 4X.

Does the 1 MOA dot hold back bullseye accuracy?  Maybe not.

At least to my eye, the glass is very clear, without much distortion.  I was a little bit afraid that the scope would not be too bright, with the small objective lens, but it is actually very bright.  It holds a zero well too.  Compared to the red dot magnifiers, the eye relief is pretty good – I don’t get bumped in the glasses as much.  The spare battery compartment in the turret cap is a nice touch.  The reticle is useful without being as cluttered as some ranging reticles. 

At least in daylight, the scope works fine without battery power.  The reticle is quite visible without illumination until dusk really sets in.  With the illumination, you can stretch your shooting out even after it gets dark. . . as long as you can still make out the target.  The illumination knob goes all the way around, so you can go straight from 0 to 11.  Yes, the DMS-1 actually goes up to 11!

A spare battery is stored in one of the adjustment knob caps.  1 click of the knob moves P.O.I. 1/2" at 100 yards.

Negative points?  At 18 ounces, it’s heavier than some comparable scopes - the Trijicon Accupoint 1-4x24 30mm scope only weighs 14.4 ounces.  If you want a bright reticle, like a red dot sight, in bright daylight, you will be disappointed, because the reticle will still just appear to be black.  The lens covers that came with the scope fell apart quickly (although the Butler Creek lens covers didn’t make it much longer).  With the magnification ring set at 1X, the scope actually seems to make objects appear smaller than with the naked eye – I seem to get true 1x with the magnification ring set at about 1.25X.  Makes me wonder what 4X really is.

I like the scope. . . for what it is.  Certainly, for the price, it is fantastic.  I’d just rather have an Aimpoint and a 3x magnifier.  You can read about the why of that in this article.

DSG Arms Thanksgiving Sale

Use promotion code "NOVMAGPUL" to get 5% off Magpul products.

Free shipping on orders over $25.  No promotion code required.

Offers good until midnight on Cyber Monday.

Updates On Some Things

I've updated, and edited my AR-15 Magazines Article.

I'm pretty much done with shooting matches until spring, so I've been enjoying shooting without the sole purpose of preparing for a match, which is nice.  It's always fun to go shooting, but now it's entirely for leisure, which is a little bit different.

I've also been restocking the ammo cans.

The primer trays piling up in my living room trash can

I think I've pretty much figured out how to get the 5.45mm AR-15 magazines running properly.  I may still have a few stubborn magazines, but at least I've gotten a few to work properly several times, and I think I've found solutions to the two distinctly different issues.  None of them worked properly when I got them.  I'll post a 5.45mm AR magazine FAQ when I get the text typed up, and maybe add a few pictures or illustrations.

The 1911 is doing well.  I've only had the one stoppage, that was almost certainly due to using a standard recoil spring with a wimpy load.  Although I never did get the tension on the coil-spring powered Aftec extractor tuned to the book spec, I can't complain about the performance.  Mostly I use 8 and 10-round Power Mags, but I mix in a 7-round Colt magazine, and an 8 round Wolff magazine occasionally.

My Kahr PM9 is still going strong.  Great little 9mm pocket pistol.  I've just got the one bad magazine, but the other 3 are fine.

My Gen.3 Glock 19 has been having stove-pipe jams with everything but defense ammo.  I've changed out a couple springs, and I'll see what happens on Monday.  The Gen.3 G17 is a little bit picky about the power factor of ammo, but isn't as picky as the 19.

I pretty much ran out my supply of .38 Special factory ammo, so I got set up to reload the wheelguns, and I've been working up loads.  Although reloading can sometimes be a bit of a chore, more often than not I do enjoy it.  I've actually shot more thirty-eights in the last few months than I've fired over the last couple years, probably.

Midway Coupon Codes From GlockTalk

From GlockTalk for Midway:

To receive your Savings:
1.  Add regular price, in-stock products to your cart totaling:
    $100 or more - Use Promotion Code 11331177
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2.  Enter the promotion code into the box titled, "Promotion Code" on the shopping cart page.
3.  See the discount applied on the Confirmation page near the end of the checkout.

Offer expires at 11:59 p.m. CT on November 21, 2011. Hurry!

Special Reminders & Exclusions:
•  Each code can only be used once. One code per order.
•  Sale, clearance, out-of-stock, Nightforce and FNH products do not count towards the total.
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•  Can only be used on midwayusa.com. No phone, fax or mail orders please.
•  Cannot be used with any other promotion code, or combined with Dealer, Birthday or Special pricing.

Online Poll: Concealed Carry

Here's an article called Time For Citizens To Arm Themselves, about Sheriff Chuck Wright of Spartanburg County S.C..  Part way through the article is a poll.

How do you feel about concealed weapons?

• I already carry one

• I am going to get a CWP

• I wouldn't carry a weapon

The good sheriff really isn't pulling any punches.  I guess he ended the "on record" interview with, "I think I better stop before I get sanctioned."

I wonder if he'd consider moving up to Delaware County, PA.  I'd probably vote for him.

Holder Knew About Fast and Furious in March?

In what Rush Limbaugh called a "random act of journalism," John King of CNN discovered, and reported, that not only did Holder get memos about Fast And Furious in October 2010, he must have been asked, by Obama, whether he knew about it back in March.

You can find the video here, on RealClearPolitics.


So, let me work out the timeline here:

March 2010 - On CNN Espanol, Obama states:

Eric Holder has -- the attorney general has been very clear that he knew nothing about this. We had assigned an I.G., inspector general, to investigate it.

October 2010 - Lanny Breuer, Holder's deputy, chief of the Criminal Division, sends Holder a memo stating that prosecutors are ready to issue indictments for the Fast and Furious operation.

July 2010 - Director of the National Drug Intelligence Center, Michael Walther, sends Holder a memo that the straw buyers observed during the Fast And Furious program:

. . . are responsible for the purchase of 1,500 firearms that were then supplied to the Mexican drug trafficking cartels.

May 3, 2011 - When asked by Congressman Issa, in front of the House Judiciary Committee, Holder claims that he:

. . . probably heard about Fast And Furious for the first time over the last few weeks.

Earlier this week, House Oversight and Government Reform Committee Chairman Rep. Darrell Issa (R-California) subpoenaed the Justice Department to supply all documents and communications between Holder, his deputies, and the White House, regarding the Fast And Furious gun-running operation.

Although I tend to be pessimistic, I'm thinking that, in light of recent events, the chances of Obama getting re-elected are getting pretty slim.  If it comes out that the administration and the BATFE deliberately supplied firearms to the Mexican cartels, then NOBODY'S going to be happy about that.

Holder and the Fast And Furious Memos

I was hearing earlier today that U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder was sent memos about the ATF's Fast And Furious program back in July 2010.  I've just heard a little while ago, from CNN (on in the break room), that the Fast And Furious memos to Holder started back in October 2010.  This isn't looking good for Holder, given that when he told the House Judiciary Committee, in early May, that he had, "probably heard about Fast And Furious for the first time over the last few weeks."

Glocks - Unsupported Chambers - 9mm and .45ACP vs. .40S&W

I want to address this, because there are misconceptions, and it keeps coming up on forums, at gunshop counters, in the aisles at gun shows, and at shooting matches.

It's widely known that the chambers of Glock .40S&W barrels are not fully supported, and that part of the cartridge case will bulge where it's not supported by the barrel.  This is actually true.  Depending on who you ask, this could be a problem for reloaders.  Not all reloaders agree that .40S&W Glocked brass is the problem that so many claim it is though.  I don't have a .40 Glock, or any other .40 for that matter, so I can't tell you from experience.

The Glock .45ACP barrels also have chambers that aren't fully supported.  I do see some bulging, but the Lee dies iron that right out.  I've fired Glocked-brass reloads through a Kart Match barrel and a Kimber barrel without a problem, and they all drop in and fall out of the EGW gage block.  I know I've got .45ACP brass that I've fired through my Glock 21 at least 6 times, and I've never had a .45ACP case fail yet.

I can tell you for sure that the chambers of 9mm Glock pistols are as supported as you're ever going to get for a 9mm autoloader.  No bulged brass, no problems.  I run Glocked 9mm brass through Lee dies, and then run the ammo through Kahr, KKM Match, RRA, Smith & Wesson, or Beretta barrels.  I don't even use the Lee Factory Crimp Dies for pistol rounds that re-resize rounds.  I've probably got brass that's been fired through my factory-stock Glock nines 6 times, and I may reload this brass a few more times before I lose it.  The only brass I've ever cracked was nickel plated Federal, and that let go after 2 or 3 loadings.

If you're still concerned, and you've got any Glocked-brass that you want to sell dirt cheap, let me know.